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17/01/20 ore

Persecuzione e campagne anti-sette: intervista a Raffaella Di Marzio



Intervista alla dr.ssa Raffaella Di Marzio, che lascia l’Ordine degli Psicologi. Fu coinvolta nel caso della più grande “psico-setta” mai esistita, rivelatasi poi una bolla mediatica. Dietro l’ennesima vicenda di malagiustizia, il fantasma del reato di plagio col vestito nuovo. Ma anche quello del reato di opinione…

 

Raffaella Di Marzio, studiosa dell’ICSA (International Cultic Studies Association) e collaboratrice del CESNUR, con il quale cura l’Enciclopedia delle Religioni, da anni si occupa di sette e nuovi movimenti religiosi. C’è chi parla di 8.000 sette religiose in Italia e abbiamo un apposito dipartimento di polizia. Parlaci di questi fenomeni nel nostro Paese.

 

La cifra di 8.000 sette che è stata diffusa da organi di stampa in realtà non esiste. Né tantomeno esistono 8.000 sette sataniche, come qualcuno ha detto. L’unica statistica attendibile sul fenomeno è quella pubblicata dal Centro Studi sulle Nuove Religioni di Torino, con il quale collaboro, che ha censito circa 836 gruppi, movimenti, organizzazioni religiose o spirituali, cifre aggiornate al 2013, poiché l’ultima edizione è stata appena pubblicata.

 

Ma in queste rientrano anche alcuni gruppi organizzati atei, oppure fratellanze massoniche: una serie di organizzazioni che sono quindi 836, ma non sono “sette” e non sono neanche tutte religioni. Sono organizzazioni spirituali, minoritarie nel nostro paese, che non hanno alcuna connotazione di pericolosità. Ovviamente, all’interno di questo vasto mondo esistono persone che compiono dei reati, come in qualsiasi ambito sociale. Il fenomeno dei gruppi religiosi non è un fenomeno di allarme sociale. E non esistono migliaia di sette.

 

Che cos’è allora una setta?

 

La parola “sette”, in ambito accademico, è stata abbandonata da tempo, perché viene usata soltanto per etichettare gruppi di minoranza e non ha nessun fondamento scientifico. Il significato puramente etimologico della parola ha perso il suo valore, e la parola “setta” è usata solo per criminalizzare gruppi che sono minoritari, quindi fanno cose diverse, credono in cose diverse, e vengono etichettati per questo. Le 836 organizzazioni censite dal CESNUR non sono sette pericolose.

 

Veniamo alla tua vicenda personale. Oggi hai deciso di dimetterti dall’Ordine degli Psicologi. Da dove nasce questa tua scelta?

 

La prima cosa da chiarificare è che io ho fatto una richiesta di cancellazione dall’Ordine degli Psicologi del Lazio. Questo è avvenuto perché da tre anni circa, cioè da quando mi sono iscritta all’Ordine, sono stata letteralmente sommersa da esposti che sono stati mandati all’Ordine e poi inoltrati a me, per i quali ogni volta mi è stato richiesto di presentare delle memorie difensive. Il problema è che questi esposti vengono tutti da un ambiente, il Forum Anti-sette italiano, e vertono tutti sulle mie idee e sul mio atteggiamento nei riguardi delle campagne anti-sette.

 

In particolare, la mia posizione riguardo a un gruppo che è finito sotto inchiesta, che si chiamava “Arkeon”. Gli esposti consistono, praticamente, in decine di pagine di cose che ho scritto sul mio blog o sul mio sito, su dichiarazioni rilasciate in interviste televisive, oppure contributi presentati a Congressi internazionali, per le quali sono tre anni che mi devo difendere di fronte a un ordine professionale. Per comprendere l’entità della persecuzione è importante anche dire che esponenti di questo Forum antisette mi hanno denunciata in diverse procure italiane e perfino segnalata  alla SAS, sempre sulla base delle stesse “accuse”.

 

Tu sei stata coinvolta nel caso Arkeon, nel 2008.

 

Io ho conosciuto Arkeon per motivi di studio, proprio perché volevamo fare una scheda su questo gruppo, come facciamo per tutti quelli di cui veniamo a conoscenza. E’ per questo che mi sono avvicinata al gruppo che nel 2007-2008 era sotto indagine. Erano stati inviati alcuni avvisi di garanzia ad alcuni maestri. Li ho incontrati  in una riunione di tipo informativo perché uno di loro mi ha chiesto aiuto. Non capiva cosa stesse succedendo.

 

C’era una campagna mediatica che li accusava di essere una setta pericolosissima e mi chiedeva spiegazioni. Anche per questo motivo ho accettato di incontrarli. Durante questa conferenza, che è avvenuta qui a Roma, è arrivata la Digos e ha sequestrato le videoregistrazioni dell’incontro. Anch’io ho rilasciato una dichiarazione in cui spiegavo che ero presente lì in qualità di studiosa del fenomeno. Dopo aver incontrato queste persone io ho fatto una cosa che ritenevo di poter fare. Evidentemente, non era così.

 

Che cos’hai fatto?

 

Ho scritto un articolo sul mio sito dicendo che l’impressione che avevo avuto fino ad allora di queste persone e di questo gruppo era che a me non sembrava fosse una “setta pericolosissima” così come veniva descritta. Poi sul mio sito uno di loro ha aperto un forum di discussione, come ce n’erano molti altri su altri gruppi. Nel frattempo venivo attaccata, in particolare sul forum del Centro Studi Abusi Psicologici di Noci, in provincia di Bari.

 

Venivo attaccata da alcuni “nick”, non so quante persone fossero. Ero accusata delle cose più strane: di essere il nuovo capo della setta, di aver favorito questa setta, di difenderla, addirittura di intimidire i testimoni o di fare abuso di professione. Non capivo esattamente, perché erano delle accuse abbastanza gravi, fino a quando è successo che ho ricevuto un avviso di garanzia, contestualmente al sequestro del mio sito.

 

Quando avveniva tutto questo?

 

Questo avveniva il 26 marzo 2008: sequestro del sito e avviso di garanzia, nel quale le accuse erano le stesse che erano state fatte nei confronti del “guru” e degli altri. Addirittura venivo accusata anche io di associazione a delinquere, di abuso di professione, di essere in un certo senso il nuovo “capo della setta” che stavo facendo un’azione di riorganizzazione del gruppo. Venivo accusata di questo sulla base di quello che era scritto sul forum che era sequestrato e anche di quello che avevo detto durante l’incontro che avevo fatto con queste persone.

 

Hai ricevuto un avviso di garanzia, il tuo sito è stato chiuso, sei stata accusata di essere il nuovo “guru” che voleva ricostruire la setta: tutto questo è successo dopo che hai scritto un articolo in cui esprimevi un’opinione diversa dagli altri, e dopo che hai ospitato un dibattito. Ti sei sentita messa a tacere?

 

Sì, mi sono sentita messa a tacere. Lo sbaglio che ho fatto, secondo qualcuno, è quello invece di non tacere, nel senso che ho aperto un blog, con il sito chiuso. Perché effettivamente trovare all’indirizzo del mio sito, che esisteva da dieci anni, un’immagine con la dichiarazione di sequestro della Procura della Repubblica di Bari, ha colpito le migliaia di persone che mi conoscono e che hanno pensato: “Chissà che cosa avrà fatto?”. Oltretutto, la maggior parte degli utenti del mio sito sono insegnanti di religione, perché io sono un’insegnante di religione.

 

Quindi, non potendo spiegare quello che era successo, ho pensato di aprire un blog per poterlo dire: “Guardate, mi hanno chiuso il sito per questi motivi …”. Il fatto che io ho aperto questo blog non è piaciuto a qualcuno. Dopo il mio, anche altre persone hanno aperto altri blog nei quali raccontavano non solo la mia vicenda, ma anche quello che stava succedendo a questa associazione che era stata messa sotto accusa.

 

Fino a quando si è protratta questa situazione?

 

Le cose sono andate avanti così fino a quando il magistrato non ha deciso di dissequestrare il mio sito. Comunque, il sito è stato chiuso circa un mese e mezzo. Questo blog poi comunque è rimasto, ed è attualmente ancora attivo. Dopodiché ovviamente il magistrato ha chiesto l’archiviazione di tutto quanto, circa un anno dopo: ma il giudice ha firmato definitivamente l’archiviazione soltanto nel marzo 2011, quindi tre anni dopo i fatti.

 

“Arkeon” è stata descritta come la più grande “psico-setta” mai esistita, ma tutti gli imputati sono stati assolti da ogni accusa riconducibile all’attività di “setta”. Che cos’era in realtà Arkeon?

 

Era nata come un’associazione di Reiki, che intorno al 2004 si era trasformata perché il fondatore aveva ritrovato le radici cattoliche della sua infanzia. Si era riconvertito al cattolicesimo. L’organizzazione stava cambiando le sue caratteristiche socioculturali  e antropologiche, e stava diventando qualcos’altro. Infatti il nome era diventato quello che era quando sono stati indagati, “Arkeon”, prima si chiamava in un altro modo. In questi momenti di cambiamento, quando avvengono questi fenomeni, in queste organizzazioni nasce sempre un dissenso molto forte, e buona parte dei frequentatori di quei seminari di Reiki non lo accettò.

 

Cominciarono una serie di problemi, anche perché il fondatore si riavvicinò alla Chiesa cattolica e trovò anche alcuni sacerdoti che lo accolsero. Dal punto di vista di questi sacerdoti cattolici si trattava di persone che passavano da un mondo lontano dalla Chiesa (quello del Reiki, dell’Oriente, di certe credenze che sono incompatibili con la Chiesa cattolica) a un lento rientro nell’alveo della cattolicità.

 

In che cosa si stava trasformando quest’associazione?

 

All’interno di questo profondo cambiamento, Arkeon si stava trasformando in un cammino antropologico per riacquisire le antiche radici della famiglia: i valori della figliolanza, della paternità, della maternità. Non è mai stata una religione, ma un cammino antropologico con connotazioni cattoliche.

 

Come si è arrivati alle accuse di setta, al processo?

 

Perché Arkeon si svolgeva in seminari, che avvenivano con delle ritualità ben precise: c’era il Rito del Cerchio, c’era il Rito del Fuoco, che deriva da una serie di tradizioni dei nativi americani che il fondatore conosceva bene essendo vissuto per un certo tempo in mezzo a loro. Le persone raccontavano un po’ della loro vita: le vicende che avevano vissuto nel passato, con i loro genitori. Il tentativo era quello riavvicinare i figli ai genitori e i genitori ai figli, attraverso una condivisione di sentimenti.

 

Qui, all’interno di questi seminari, è chiaro che poi venivano fuori anche le esperienze intime delle persone. Qualcuno si è sentito abusato, qualcuno si è sentito non capito, qualcun altro aveva dei suoi problemi. Così poche persone, tra cui una madre che considerava l’affiliazione del figlio un fatto negativo, si sono rivolte al CeSAP. Queste persone sono state accolte, come ovviamente bisogna fare in questi casi.

 

In che modo il vissuto personale di questi ex membri ha avuto a che fare col processo Arkeon?

 

Le testimonianze di quegli ex membri scontenti sono diventate il fondamento per tutte le accuse che poi sono state acquisite dal magistrato e portate avanti. Ora, è successo anche che all’interno di questa organizzazione, dove c’erano tanti maestri, ce n’è stato uno che pare abbia abusato di due allieve. Ma questo maestro era stato già espulso dall’organizzazione, e l’abuso non è avvenuto nel corso dei seminari di Arkeon: è avvenuto in una casa privata. Quindi non ha nulla a che fare con le attività di Arkeon.

 

Questa singola persona è stata condannata dal Tribunale di Milano. Da tutte le altre accuse avanzate dalle vittime (la violenza privata, la truffa, la calunnia, il maltrattamento, l’abuso sui minori, la circonvenzione d’incapace, etc.) sono stati tutti assolti, e in via definitiva.  L’unica condanna è stata quella dell’associazione a delinquere per l’esercizio abusivo della professione di psicologo. Quindi i giudici, nella sentenza di primo grado, hanno ritenuto che questi maestri hanno fatto abuso di professione.

 

Perché non erano iscritti all’Ordine?

 

Perché non erano iscritti all’Ordine. Moccia è laureato in psicologia, ma non è iscritto all’Ordine. Ma né lui né tutti gli altri testimoni che sono andati al processo, anche quelli dell’accusa, hanno mai detto che lui si sia presentato come psicologo. Anzi, io devo dire che quando ho parlato con alcune di queste persone loro mi hanno detto che andavano dallo psicologo o dallo psicoterapeuta e poi frequentavano anche i seminari di Arkeon.

 

Quindi, diciamo che evidentemente si trattava di un cammino che i maestri non intendevano come psicoterapeutico, ma di tipo antropologico, che è una cosa completamente diversa. Ma ciò che interessa è che i giudici non hanno riconosciuto neanche la circonvenzione d’incapace, mentre questo gruppo è stato accusato, anche presso la commissione Giustizia del Senato, di fare la manipolazione mentale dei suoi membri. I giudici hanno detto che questo non avveniva, e che queste persone erano completamente libere di aderire, di andare, venire, non andare più. Quindi hanno detto che non c’era nessuna circonvenzione e nessuna manipolazione mentale.

 

I movimenti che lottano contro le “sette” sostengono che, dall’abolizione del reato di plagio per incostituzionalità, sia oggi impossibile un contrasto efficace agli abusi psicologici in ambito religioso, e che serve una legge sulla “manipolazione mentale”. Qual è la tua opinione su questo?

 

Io questa opinione la condividevo, l’ho condivisa fino alla fine degli anni Novanta. Dopodiché, con più esperienza e con più studio, mi sono accorta che è un’opinione del tutto sbagliata. Ed è quello che ho detto in commissione Giustizia quando sono stata audita. Perché non c’è nessun fondamento scientifico che possa attestare quando una persona è manipolata mentalmente e quando non lo è. Nessuno può misurare il grado di libertà di scelta di una persona, perché non è come misurare la febbre. E’ una cosa molto complessa.

 

Approvare una legge del genere, come disse la Corte Costituzionale, vuol dire inserire una mina vagante nel nostro ordinamento. Per quanto riguarda le persone che entrano nelle sette, bisogna vedere che cos’è una setta, perché non c’è nessuna definizione scientifica della parola “setta”. Non c’è nessuna definizione scientifica della manipolazione mentale applicata ai gruppi religioso-spirituali. Perché di manipolazioni mentali noi ne subiamo tutti i giorni, costantemente, da tantissime parti.

 

Che cos’è la “manipolazione mentale”?

 

La manipolazione, l’influenza più o meno indebita sulle persone è un fatto naturale, che avviene tutti i giorni. Anche una madre che costringe il proprio figlio ad andare al catechismo e il bambino non vuole applica una forzata manipolazione, magari promettendogli qualcosa o negandogli qualcosa. C’è stato un solo tentativo molto importante, che è stato fatto da alcuni gruppi anti-sette, ma anche studiosi che accettavano questa idea negli Stati Uniti, di far approvare dall’American Psychological Association una deliberazione, un rapporto nel quale si sosteneva che nei gruppi religiosi esiste questa forma di manipolazione, lavaggio del cervello, controllo mentale.

 

L’APA ha chiaramente detto che non c’è nessuna forma di manipolazione mentale applicata ai gruppi religiosi che si possa definire tale, ma che la persuasione coercitiva, che tutti gli psicologi studiano, è un fenomeno che avviene in ogni ambito e non ce n’è uno specifico che si possa applicare ai gruppi religiosi.

 

Quindi l’APA rifiutò il concetto di “manipolazione mentale” in ambito religioso?

 

Sì, e tolse qualsiasi credibilità scientifica a questa nozione, che fu rifiutata, ormai dagli anni Novanta, in tutti i tribunali americani. Mentre noi in Italia continuiamo ancora a tirare fuori questa nozione che è, ripeto, rifiutata in ambito scientifico, come se fosse invece riconosciuta.

 

Alla luce di fatti simili, credi che esista un pericolo di persecuzione religiosa oggi in Italia?

 

Esiste non solo un pericolo di persecuzione religiosa, ma esiste realmente un pericolo di persecuzione a livello generale, perché se esistesse davvero una legge sulla manipolazione mentale tutti potremmo essere accusati di fare la manipolazione mentale a qualcun altro. Non è solo per le religioni, ma vale anche per i rapporti tra maestro e ragazzo, insegnante – giovane, sacerdote – fedele, psicologo – paziente, marito – moglie. Chiunque dovesse tentare di utilizzare delle metodiche un po’ forti per convincere qualcun altro di qualcosa potrebbe finire denunciato e sotto processo. Quindi non è soltanto per le religioni il pericolo, il pericolo è per tutti. Questa è una legge liberticida. E’ pericolosissima.

 

Camillo Maffia

 

 


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